Why can't we take Coenzyme A instead of B5?

Out of interest Kita, why don't you take 900mg Pantethine a day? I recall
from another thread that you were against 10g of B5, but surely not 900mg?

Do you or anyone know where I can buy Pantethine capsules in the UK (or
abroad from places that ship to the UK?)

"kita" <me.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3F0D8F34.8080105@privacy.net...
> Anon wrote:
> > I note at http://www.coenzyme-a.com/acne_vulgaris.html that Coenzyme A
is
> > the primary deficiency that may cause acne in some.
> >
> > They recommend we take B5 to create Coenzyme A.
> >
> > However my health store sells Coenzyme A capsules. Why don't we just
take
> > those instead? :-S
> >
> >
>
> You can take pantethine (as dave's post mentions) also (I'm not offhand
> familiar with coA caps, but I have jet lag, so maybe I'm just brain
> fogged..). Pantethine IS further along the pathway, and more efficient
> in manufacturing coA..
>
> It is much much more expensive, hence fewer people try it.
> Some people who were on 10 grams a day of Pantothenic Acid (b5) had
> equivalent results with 900 mg (300 mg caps three times daily) of
> pantethine. For this reason alone I think it's worth trying.
> But
> I've read other posts (a couple of them) saying it didn't work for them..
>
> Considering that no one knows why B5 is working for acne (only
> theories), it isn't so clear cut as getting max coA. Personally I think
> the b5 acts as a glucocorticoid or corticosteroid. But until research is
> done, it's all a guess. So maxing out CoA might have nothing to due with
> how/why B5 works for acne..
>
> But 900mg max dose is much safer than super-megadoses of the pantothenic
> acid version, so I think it is a worthy alternative.
>
> Hth,
> kita
>
 >> Stay informed about: Why can't we take Coenzyme A instead of B5? 

Acnonymous wrote:
> Out of interest Kita, why don't you take 900mg Pantethine a day? I recall
> from another thread that you were against 10g of B5, but surely not 900mg?

I took 1-2 grams of Pantothenic acid/b5 for a few months. It worked well
enough that I don't think I would need a higher dose for results.
Unfortunately I had a few of the negative side effects. The "mosquito
bite" spots, one that didn't heal the entire few months. And more
importantly, I had tooth pain/sensitivity. That is one of the side
effects of PA/b5, but I had forgotten about it. But I had gotten a
filling, and the tooth really hurt for weeks. My dentist had suggested
root canal or other serious options (like pulling it). I couldn't even
eat it hurt so bad. Then I came across the nerve sensitivity side effect
again, and realized they might be inter-related. So I went off the B5,
and within a few weeks the pain had subsided noticeably. It took a few
months, but eventually the filling healed and it's only slightly
sensitive now.

I suspect that the B5/tooth sensitivity thing is somehow related to the
delayed healing side effect. This comes into play if you have a filling
done while on B5. It (sometimes) doesn't heal correctly and pain
results. Doesn't seem to happen to everyone, but I know of a dozen or so
that experienced the same thing. However, the megadoses (even 1g a day
is considered megadosing) don't seem to have the same effect on *old*
fillings. Just new ones. So it's somehow related to healing, imo.

So I still have a bunch of bottles of B5 in my cabinet. I plan to try
the pantethine one day, just out of curiousity, but only after I use up
any pantothenic acid I have. And after any dental visits The skin
effects are good, but I mostly enjoyed the mood/stress action of the b5.
I think the anti-stress action of it is wonderful.


> Do you or anyone know where I can buy Pantethine capsules in the UK (or
> abroad from places that ship to the UK?)
>

I like the Atkins product
http://atkins.com/shop/products/Pantethine_Complex.html
But the UK shipping and handling is prohibitive. I don't know where you
can buy it local to you, I buy my supplements at local stores. Sorry,
can't help .
 >> Stay informed about: Why can't we take Coenzyme A instead of B5? 

Thanks Kita.

Okay I've ordered Pantethine capsules (250mg) from Vitanet:
http://store.yahoo.com/vitanet/pan120cap250.html

They suggest up to 4 a day (1g), and you say people here had positive
results (the same as a 10g dose of B5) with just 0.9g a day? So as far as
dosage goes, just 4 caps a day with meals you think?

What about a maintenance dose when the acne clears? I suppose there's no
harm of taking 4 a day (except to my wallet) but what experience do you have
of the best maintenance dose for Pantethine?

Does it deplete Biotin as B5 does?

I wanted to use the AcneMiracle B5 powder and B5 gel, but I'd rather try
this route first than risk any side-effects of a mega-dose. Someone here
says there's a Nivea after-shave with B5 that worked as well for them as
10g/day of B5 so I may add that in.

I'm going to try the Pantethine internally, and Klear Action externally.
Should be interesting.

Don't worry I am taking a mild multi-vitamin (100% RDA), but I've stopped my
mega-dose one for now, to see if maybe the Iodine or B6/12 were causing
acne.

Thanks for your advice.

"kita" <me.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3F0F4FE5.5050506@privacy.net...
> Acnonymous wrote:
> > Out of interest Kita, why don't you take 900mg Pantethine a day? I
recall
> > from another thread that you were against 10g of B5, but surely not
900mg?
>
> I took 1-2 grams of Pantothenic acid/b5 for a few months. It worked well
> enough that I don't think I would need a higher dose for results.
> Unfortunately I had a few of the negative side effects. The "mosquito
> bite" spots, one that didn't heal the entire few months. And more
> importantly, I had tooth pain/sensitivity. That is one of the side
> effects of PA/b5, but I had forgotten about it. But I had gotten a
> filling, and the tooth really hurt for weeks. My dentist had suggested
> root canal or other serious options (like pulling it). I couldn't even
> eat it hurt so bad. Then I came across the nerve sensitivity side effect
> again, and realized they might be inter-related. So I went off the B5,
> and within a few weeks the pain had subsided noticeably. It took a few
> months, but eventually the filling healed and it's only slightly
> sensitive now.
>
> I suspect that the B5/tooth sensitivity thing is somehow related to the
> delayed healing side effect. This comes into play if you have a filling
> done while on B5. It (sometimes) doesn't heal correctly and pain
> results. Doesn't seem to happen to everyone, but I know of a dozen or so
> that experienced the same thing. However, the megadoses (even 1g a day
> is considered megadosing) don't seem to have the same effect on *old*
> fillings. Just new ones. So it's somehow related to healing, imo.
>
> So I still have a bunch of bottles of B5 in my cabinet. I plan to try
> the pantethine one day, just out of curiousity, but only after I use up
> any pantothenic acid I have. And after any dental visits The skin
> effects are good, but I mostly enjoyed the mood/stress action of the b5.
> I think the anti-stress action of it is wonderful.
>
>
> > Do you or anyone know where I can buy Pantethine capsules in the UK (or
> > abroad from places that ship to the UK?)
> >
>
> I like the Atkins product
> http://atkins.com/shop/products/Pantethine_Complex.html
> But the UK shipping and handling is prohibitive. I don't know where you
> can buy it local to you, I buy my supplements at local stores. Sorry,
> can't help .
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Why can't we take Coenzyme A instead of B5? 

Fewer people have tried the Pantethine, and keep in mind that some
people had no results with Pantethine, but good results with Pantothenic
Acid (and vice versa). (I don't want to mislead about that). So it's
YMMV and I have less anecdotes from which to refer to on the Pantethine..
For some reason, those that switched to Pantethine always referred to
900mg being the equivalent (to 10g Pantothenic acid) dose. I don't know
why that number was established aside from being the usual recommended
dose. Fwiw, "because even really large doses of pantethine have no side
effects, this makes it especially attractive for hemodialysis patients
because of the increased risk of drug toxicity in patients with renal
(kidney) failure."
http://www.whyvitamins.com/articles/vitamin-b5-pantothenic-acid-and-health.html

If you are taking a multi, it seems less likely that you would risk
b-vite deficiencies. The higher dose you take, the more the other B's go
out in your urine (with the excess Pantothenic Acid). Which is the
simplest reason excess of one B can cause deficiencies. But in the case
of Biotin and B5,

"Pantothenic acid and biotin

Pantothenic acid is used in the breakdown of carbohydrates, lipids and
some amino acids. It is also used for the synthesis of coenzyme A for
biochemical reactions in the body. Biotin functions as a coenzyme in
carboxylation reactions (-COOH), which are also useful in many of the
body's functions. (Pantothenic acid, biotin and folic acid are often
used in tandem by the body.) Bacteria in our intestines produce both
pantothenic acid and biotin."
http://home.howstuffworks.com/vitamin-b1.htm

Now it's possible that as one ingests more and more Pantothenic acid,
the stomach bacteria begin to produce less. Perhaps they produce less
biotin as well. Or perhaps (the obvious reason) the biotin just gets
used up in shared carrier-mediated colon processes with Pantothenic acid.
I don't know, afaik knows yet for sure (about what happens in B5
megadosing). Just what has been pieced together from what we DO know.
But it's all theory..

Clear Skin Image tabs use this formula:
"Pantothenic Acid 1,000 mg
Biotin-1 mg
Niacin-20 mg
Molybdenum (Amino Acid Chelate)-.02 mg "
http://tinyurl.com/gpp9

I don't know that 1g b5 : 1 mg Biotin is the perfect ratio, but I'd try
to get at least that much in my multi or supplement separately.
(The Clear Skin Image is a good site, has Leung's study on it and some
other info.. their prices are just too high, imho).

I would go by the same amounts for pantethine.

Since pantethine is more effective towards CoA and requires
(theoretically) less, one will not pee out/waste the other B's with the
lower dose.

At least this is the best I can recall/dig up offhand. It's been a long
time since I really researched all this stuff, so I am not as versed as
I used to be on it..

Oh yeah, as for maintenance dose, do you mean for Pantethine or
Pantothenic acid? I have no idea on Pantethine. Pantothenic acid
maintenance dose usually ranges from 2 grams to 20 grams. One or two
were able to drop to 500mg a day, last I heard..

hth somewhat..
Google searching on Pantethine + Acne for the web or the groups should
offer up some more help..

kita

Acnonymous wrote:
> Thanks Kita.
>
> Okay I've ordered Pantethine capsules (250mg) from Vitanet:
> http://store.yahoo.com/vitanet/pan120cap250.html
>
> They suggest up to 4 a day (1g), and you say people here had positive
> results (the same as a 10g dose of B5) with just 0.9g a day? So as far as
> dosage goes, just 4 caps a day with meals you think?
>
> What about a maintenance dose when the acne clears? I suppose there's no
> harm of taking 4 a day (except to my wallet) but what experience do you have
> of the best maintenance dose for Pantethine?
>
> Does it deplete Biotin as B5 does?
>
> I wanted to use the AcneMiracle B5 powder and B5 gel, but I'd rather try
> this route first than risk any side-effects of a mega-dose. Someone here
> says there's a Nivea after-shave with B5 that worked as well for them as
> 10g/day of B5 so I may add that in.
>
> I'm going to try the Pantethine internally, and Klear Action externally.
> Should be interesting.
>
> Don't worry I am taking a mild multi-vitamin (100% RDA), but I've stopped my
> mega-dose one for now, to see if maybe the Iodine or B6/12 were causing
> acne.
>
> Thanks for your advice.
 >> Stay informed about: Why can't we take Coenzyme A instead of B5? 

Great, thanks, let you know how it goes.

"kita" <me.RemoveThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3F0F8E86.8080607@privacy.net...
> Fewer people have tried the Pantethine, and keep in mind that some
> people had no results with Pantethine, but good results with Pantothenic
> Acid (and vice versa). (I don't want to mislead about that). So it's
> YMMV and I have less anecdotes from which to refer to on the Pantethine..
> For some reason, those that switched to Pantethine always referred to
> 900mg being the equivalent (to 10g Pantothenic acid) dose. I don't know
> why that number was established aside from being the usual recommended
> dose. Fwiw, "because even really large doses of pantethine have no side
> effects, this makes it especially attractive for hemodialysis patients
> because of the increased risk of drug toxicity in patients with renal
> (kidney) failure."
>
http://www.whyvitamins.com/articles/vitamin-b5-pantothenic-acid-and-health.h
tml
>
> If you are taking a multi, it seems less likely that you would risk
> b-vite deficiencies. The higher dose you take, the more the other B's go
> out in your urine (with the excess Pantothenic Acid). Which is the
> simplest reason excess of one B can cause deficiencies. But in the case
> of Biotin and B5,
>
> "Pantothenic acid and biotin
>
> Pantothenic acid is used in the breakdown of carbohydrates, lipids and
> some amino acids. It is also used for the synthesis of coenzyme A for
> biochemical reactions in the body. Biotin functions as a coenzyme in
> carboxylation reactions (-COOH), which are also useful in many of the
> body's functions. (Pantothenic acid, biotin and folic acid are often
> used in tandem by the body.) Bacteria in our intestines produce both
> pantothenic acid and biotin."
> http://home.howstuffworks.com/vitamin-b1.htm
>
> Now it's possible that as one ingests more and more Pantothenic acid,
> the stomach bacteria begin to produce less. Perhaps they produce less
> biotin as well. Or perhaps (the obvious reason) the biotin just gets
> used up in shared carrier-mediated colon processes with Pantothenic acid.
> I don't know, afaik knows yet for sure (about what happens in B5
> megadosing). Just what has been pieced together from what we DO know.
> But it's all theory..
>
> Clear Skin Image tabs use this formula:
> "Pantothenic Acid 1,000 mg
> Biotin-1 mg
> Niacin-20 mg
> Molybdenum (Amino Acid Chelate)-.02 mg "
> http://tinyurl.com/gpp9
>
> I don't know that 1g b5 : 1 mg Biotin is the perfect ratio, but I'd try
> to get at least that much in my multi or supplement separately.
> (The Clear Skin Image is a good site, has Leung's study on it and some
> other info.. their prices are just too high, imho).
>
> I would go by the same amounts for pantethine.
>
> Since pantethine is more effective towards CoA and requires
> (theoretically) less, one will not pee out/waste the other B's with the
> lower dose.
>
> At least this is the best I can recall/dig up offhand. It's been a long
> time since I really researched all this stuff, so I am not as versed as
> I used to be on it..
>
> Oh yeah, as for maintenance dose, do you mean for Pantethine or
> Pantothenic acid? I have no idea on Pantethine. Pantothenic acid
> maintenance dose usually ranges from 2 grams to 20 grams. One or two
> were able to drop to 500mg a day, last I heard..
>
> hth somewhat..
> Google searching on Pantethine + Acne for the web or the groups should
> offer up some more help..
>
> kita
>
> Acnonymous wrote:
> > Thanks Kita.
> >
> > Okay I've ordered Pantethine capsules (250mg) from Vitanet:
> > http://store.yahoo.com/vitanet/pan120cap250.html
> >
> > They suggest up to 4 a day (1g), and you say people here had positive
> > results (the same as a 10g dose of B5) with just 0.9g a day? So as far
as
> > dosage goes, just 4 caps a day with meals you think?
> >
> > What about a maintenance dose when the acne clears? I suppose there's
no
> > harm of taking 4 a day (except to my wallet) but what experience do you
have
> > of the best maintenance dose for Pantethine?
> >
> > Does it deplete Biotin as B5 does?
> >
> > I wanted to use the AcneMiracle B5 powder and B5 gel, but I'd rather try
> > this route first than risk any side-effects of a mega-dose. Someone
here
> > says there's a Nivea after-shave with B5 that worked as well for them as
> > 10g/day of B5 so I may add that in.
> >
> > I'm going to try the Pantethine internally, and Klear Action externally.
> > Should be interesting.
> >
> > Don't worry I am taking a mild multi-vitamin (100% RDA), but I've
stopped my
> > mega-dose one for now, to see if maybe the Iodine or B6/12 were causing
> > acne.
> >
> > Thanks for your advice.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Why can't we take Coenzyme A instead of B5?